DAVID BIANCULLI, HOST:

That is FRESH AIR. I am David Bianculli, in for Terry Gross. At present we’re remembering Seymour Stein, who died final Sunday at age 80. He was the co-founder of Sire Data, which he ran from 1966 till he stepped down in 2018. We’ll hear to 2 of our interviews with Stein. Over his lengthy profession, he signed a variety of pioneering artists, from the Ramones and Madonna to Speaking Heads, The Pretenders, okay.d. lang and Ice-T. This is a sampling.

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “BEAT ON THE BRAT”)

RAMONES: (Singing) Beat on the brat. Beat on the brat. Beat on the brat with a baseball bat, oh, yeah, oh, yeah, oh.

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “LUCKY STAR”)

MADONNA: (Singing) You should be my fortunate star ‘trigger you shine on me wherever you’re. I simply consider you, and I begin to glow.

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “BURNING DOWN THE HOUSE”)

TALKING HEADS: (Singing) Be careful. You may get what you are after. Cool, infants – unusual however not a stranger. I am an abnormal man burning down the home. Maintain tight.

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “6 ‘N THE MORNIN'”)

ICE-T: (Rapping) Six within the morning, police at my door, contemporary Adidas squeak throughout the lavatory flooring. Out my again window I make my escape – did not even get an opportunity to seize my old-school tape. Mad with no music however glad ‘trigger free, and the streets to a participant is the place to be.

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “DIRTY BLVD.”)

LOU REED: (Singing) He is received 9 brothers and sisters. They’re introduced up on their knees. It is onerous to run when a coat hanger beats you on the thighs. Pedro goals of being older and killing the outdated man, however that is a slim likelihood. He’ll the boulevard. He’ll find yourself on the soiled boulevard. He is going out to get the soiled boulevard.

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “BRASS IN POCKET”)

THE PRETENDERS: (Singing) Going to make use of my arms, going to make use of my legs, going to make use of my fashion, going to make use of my sidestep, going to make use of my fingers, going to make use of my, my, my creativeness ‘trigger I’ll make you see.

BIANCULLI: Seymour Stein realized the file enterprise at King Data. He was solely 14 when he met Syd Nathan, that label’s founder. On the time, the younger teenager was working at Billboard journal. Billboard used to host listening classes the place file firm homeowners would play their new recordings and attempt to persuade Billboard to present them a very good assessment. At a kind of classes, Stein met Syd Nathan. Seymour Stein recalled their first assembly in a dialog with Terry Gross in 2009.

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR BROADCAST)

SEYMOUR STEIN: I keep in mind that session, you realize, prefer it was yesterday, and it was over 50 years in the past. Syd was there and one other file man was there as nicely. What I keep in mind very clearly was there have been a considerable amount of information to hearken to, and the final two or three had been on the Jubilee label. And one of many reporters mentioned, oh, I hear Jubilee Data goes out of enterprise. Why ought to we even trouble with these information? He mentioned, I am positive – you realize, Syd is getting somewhat bored right here. And Syd mentioned – and the best way he spoke, you realize, he mentioned, (imitating Syd Nathan) look; what if I wasn’t right here? Would you speak that means about me? Hear to those information.

And so the particular person mentioned, boy, Jerry Blaine – who was the proprietor of Jubilee Data – he mentioned he should be a very good buddy of yours. And he mentioned (imitating Syd Nathan) oh, no, I am suing the son of a b****.

TERRY GROSS: (Laughter).

STEIN: And he mentioned, however what’s proper is correct, you realize? And one of many information truly grew to become a success. I can not keep in mind – it may need been “White Silver Sands” by Don Rondo or one thing like that.

GROSS: So how did you get to work for Syd Nathan?

STEIN: He invited me out to spend the summer season with him. I used to be nonetheless in highschool. I used to be 15, and I mentioned, yeah, wow. And my dad and mom had been a bit – you realize, my father was an Orthodox Jew and, you realize, simply did not perceive all of this. And I might introduced them as much as Billboard. And an appointment was made, which I did not speak to my dad and mom for a few weeks. I used to be so embarrassed that they might, you realize, query one thing that was so fantastic.

And simply as they walked into Syd’s workplace, he put out his – my father – low cost cigar, and Sydney instantly reached into his pocket and gave him a Havana, which my father was not used to. And he had my father in his pocket. And he mentioned, nicely – he mentioned, Seymour right here – he is received shellac in his veins. And what a praise. It meant that, you realize, I used to be a file man, you realize, as a result of shellac was the principle ingredient in an outdated 78. After which he defined that to my father. He mentioned, for those who do not let him do what he needs to do, he’ll wind up doing nothing. And you will have to purchase him a newspaper route as a result of that is all he’ll be good for. And this was April, and my dad and mom rushed residence, and after I received residence, every little thing was packed. I wasn’t supposed to go away until the tip of June when highschool was up.

GROSS: So how outdated had been you whenever you went to work with Syd Nathan at King Data full time?

STEIN: Full time was 1961, ’62. So I might have been 19 or simply turning 20.

GROSS: Now, one of many issues that Syd Nathan did for you after you began working with him at King Data was inform you to vary your title. Your actual final title was…

STEIN: Oh, I used to be born with the title Steinbigle – Seymour Steinbigle.

GROSS: And what was mistaken with that in Syd Nathan’s eyes?

STEIN: It was too lengthy. And he saved asking me to vary it. And I did not need to damage my father’s emotions. My father was the eldest son and each his brothers had modified their title, had shortened it, however he felt out of respect to his father, he ought to hold it.

GROSS: So – however you probably did change it.

STEIN: Nicely, sure. Not everyone had telephones at King Data. Folks shared telephones. As a lot as three or 4 folks may share a cellphone at one time. However there was a paging system, and the switchboard operator had one microphone, and Syd had the opposite one on his desk. And I used to be being paged at an incoming name. Seymour Steinbigle, choose up the closest cellphone. Seymour Steinbigle, there is a name. And he or she was repeating it over and over. And unexpectedly, Syd’s voice got here on and he mentioned (imitating Syd Nathan) oh, no, it is Stein or Bigle or again to New York.

GROSS: (Laughter).

STEIN: And I used to be so – I nearly began to cry. I used to be so embarrassed. And I modified my title. And it – I am very glad that I did.

GROSS: So you bought began at Billboard journal. Do you ever miss the significance of the charts, the times when, like, High 40 actually meant one thing?

STEIN: I miss it lots.

GROSS: What do you miss about it?

STEIN: I miss all of the the thrill. I imply, that is how I heard about Billboard. And there was this disc jockey lengthy earlier than rock ‘n’ roll, Martin Block.

GROSS: WNEW New York.

STEIN: Sure.

GROSS: Make Imagine Ballroom.

STEIN: Precisely. (Singing) It is Make Imagine Ballroom time and free to everybody.

Nicely, I might come again on Saturday mornings from the synagogue and and have my radio form of beneath the pillow so my father could not hear it when he got here residence, listening to Martin Block play the High 25 off of the Billboard chart, and later he began enjoying, as well as, the High 5 R&B and the High 5 nation and western. And that is how I received launched to Johnny Money and Ray Worth and Hank Williams on the one hand, and to among the R&B information, to my idol, Fat Domino, as nicely. Radio was essential, and the charts, they usually performed the Billboard charts. That was what Martin Block performed off of. And that is how I knew to go as much as Billboard.

GROSS: Seymour Stein, a pleasure to speak with you. Thanks a lot.

STEIN: You are very welcome.

BIANCULLI: Seymour Stein chatting with Terry Gross in 2009. He died final Sunday at age 80. After a break, we’ll hear one other of their conversations. That is FRESH AIR.

(SOUNDBITE OF ICE-T SONG, “NEW JACK HUSTLER (NINO’S THEME)”)

BIANCULLI: That is FRESH AIR. We’re listening again to our interviews with Seymour Stein, the influential co-founder of Sire Data. He died Sunday. Terry Gross spoke with Stein once more in 2018. He had simply revealed his autobiography, known as “Siren Track: My Life In Music.”

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR BROADCAST)

GROSS: Seymour Stein, welcome again to FRESH AIR. In your e-book, you write, I am a hitman, a file enterprise entrepreneur. What I am not is a producer like Phil Spector or Quincy Jones. I can not play any instrument. I can not function a studio. My precise job description is A&R, artist and repertoire, the outdated showbusiness time period for expertise searching. How do you suppose not being a musician has been each a shortcoming and a bonus for you?

STEIN: Nicely, I feel that for me it has been considerably of a bonus as a result of what I hearken to at first are the songs. And I at all times really feel that an artist as a performer can at all times get higher and normally does. The identical factor with a musician – they normally get stronger, you realize, because it goes alongside. However the songs must be nice from the very starting, and that is what I’ve at all times seemed for in all of the completely different classes and fields of music that I’ve signed artists in. It is at all times been the songs.

GROSS: You began within the file enterprise at age 15, when Syd Nathan, the founding father of King Data, satisfied your father to can help you spend summers in Cincinnati at King’s headquarters.

STEIN: Nicely, no, that is not precisely right. I began actually going as much as Billboard after I was 15 years outdated simply to repeat down the charts as a result of I had saved the charts religiously from round – after I was about 9 years outdated, I began writing them down. I might hearken to a present known as “Make Imagine Ballroom,” and they might play the High 25 hits off of the Billboard chart. And I needed to go backwards and go into the ’40s and discover out what was happening then. However that introduced me to New York. That introduced me to Billboard within the Palace Theater constructing, and that was the middle of the music enterprise there. And I noticed every little thing that was happening.

GROSS: You had been simply actually pivotal within the punk motion in America. You signed the Ramones, one of many first punk rock bands. How had been you tipped off about them? How do you know to go hear them?

STEIN: I had heard about them from numerous folks, however I feel largely from Danny Fields. And I had needed to go see them a few instances, however I used to be in England. And I got here again notably to see them. And I received sick after I was in England, and I could not go. So I despatched my spouse with Danny, and he or she got here again raving.

So the subsequent night I bundled up, rented a rehearsal studio, and I rented it for an hour. However their set – they should have finished, you realize, about 18 songs in about 25 minutes. I’ll exaggerate somewhat bit, however they had been simply unbelievable. I used to be – it was like nothing else I had ever heard. I began speaking to them instantly, and we got here to an settlement, a deal proper then and there. And two days later they had been within the recording studio, and that was it, you realize – one of many best signings for me and actually a fantastic factor for Sire Data.

GROSS: Do you’ve gotten a favourite observe from the Ramones among the many information that you simply put out on Sire?

STEIN: I suppose, you realize, what at all times involves thoughts instantly is “Blitzkrieg Bop.” There are such a lot of of their songs that I like, however “Blitzkrieg Bop,” I feel, is my favourite.

GROSS: So let’s hear “Blitzkrieg Bop” by the Ramones on an album launched by Sire Data, which is the label co-created by my visitor Seymour Stein, who nonetheless has Sire Data.

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “BLITZKRIEG BOP”)

RAMONES: (Singing) Hey, ho. Let’s go. Hey, ho. Let’s go. Hey, ho. Let’s go. Hey, ho. Let’s go. They’re forming in a straight line. They are going via a decent wind. The youngsters are shedding their minds – the blitzkrieg bop. They’re piling within the again seat. They’re producing steam warmth. Pulsating to the again beat – the blitzkrieg bop. Hey, ho. Let’s go. Shoot them within the again now. What they need, I do not know. They’re all revved up and able to go. They’re forming in a straight line. They are going via a decent wind.

GROSS: So that is the Ramones, one of many nice bands signed by my visitor, Seymour Stein of Sire Data. So – yeah, go forward.

STEIN: Wait. One correction – I do not nonetheless have Sire Data. A couple of month in the past, I left. And…

GROSS: Oh.

STEIN: – sure. I left Sire. And I left Warner Bros. And I am now serious about pursuing new aims.

GROSS: So let’s get again to the Ramones. It was very onerous so that you can get any type of radio play for the Ramones as a result of why? And we’re speaking a time when there’s – like, there’s AM, and there is FM. And FM is extra album-oriented then. And AM continues to be, like, singles. So on the danger of asking the plain, why was it so onerous to get the Ramones some airplay?

STEIN: I feel they had been type of misunderstood and never absolutely appreciated. And that was in america. However after we lastly received them out of america and, you realize, touring in England, they had been a sensation. In actual fact, the primary gig that they did, a number of English bands got here to see them – the Intercourse Pistols and The Conflict and others. And so they had been so enthralled with the Ramones that it made them satisfied that they might make it, too. And it type of turned the tide for them. They had been additionally massive in different elements of Europe and South America. And it is a disgrace. They’d be enjoying massive theaters in England after which coming again to America and enjoying, you realize, small golf equipment. It type of broke my coronary heart. And I am positive it broke their hearts, too.

GROSS: So one of many belongings you tried to do to get your bands airplay was to inform your promotion folks, do not use the phrase punk. Use the phrase new wave. Why did you try this? And was it efficient?

STEIN: Nicely, that basically took place with the Speaking Heads as a result of they had been describing them as punk, they usually had been the furthest factor from punk. I mentioned, look; New York was absolutely the middle of the music enterprise. And that was perhaps 20, 25 years earlier than that. After which, in fact, LA got here into prominence, San Francisco, Detroit with Motown, and Philadelphia with labels, you realize, like Cameo and Parkway and later Philadelphia Worldwide. And Memphis and Nashville was rising. And all of it took away from the significance of New York. After which I feel that this music, which was predominantly coming from New York however not solely, was like a brand new wave for New York. And that is what I known as it. And it did not sound dangerous, like punk.

GROSS: So let’s speak about Speaking Heads. You heard them type of by chance the primary time round. Appropriate me if I am mistaken. However you went to listen to new songs by the Ramones at a membership.

STEIN: Sure.

GROSS: Speaking Heads was opening for them.

STEIN: Yeah.

GROSS: And that is the way you heard them.

STEIN: And it was a shock opening. They weren’t speculated to be the opening act. However I had heard about Speaking Heads. However they weren’t spending that a lot time in New York. They had been very early concerned in video. And so they had been engaged on that. And so they had been going again to Rhode Island, you realize, which is the place they went to highschool. And they also – I missed a number of their gigs. And Johnny needed me to listen to some new songs stay.

GROSS: Johnny Ramone.

STEIN: Johnny Ramone, sure. And so I got here down. I investigated what the opening band was going to be. And so they had been a band known as The Shirts, which I had seen and favored however not favored sufficient to signal. And so I used to be ready outdoors of CBGBs. And unexpectedly, I hear this music. And, I imply, it, like, sucked me into the room. That is how extremely good it was. I used to be standing outdoors with Lenny Kaye from the Patti Smith band. And I could not imagine what I used to be listening to. It was so unbelievable. I mentioned, this is not The Shirts. He mentioned, no, no. They received one other gig. He mentioned, that is Speaking Heads. And, boy, I used to be simply blown away.

GROSS: So I need to play a observe from their first album that you simply launched, “Speaking Heads: 77.” And that is “Psycho Killer,” which is such a fantastic observe.

STEIN: Fabulous.

GROSS: OK. So let’s hear Speaking Heads. And that is “Psycho Killer.”

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “PSYCHO KILLER”)

TALKING HEADS: (Singing) I can not seem to withstand the details. I am tense and nervous, and I can not calm down. I can not sleep ‘trigger my mattress’s on hearth. Do not contact me. I am an actual stay wire. Psycho killer, qu’est-ce que c’est. (Vocalizing). Higher run, run, run run, run, run, run away. Oh, oh, oh, psycho killer, qu’est-ce que c’est. (Vocalizing). Higher run, run, run, run, run, run, run away. Oh, oh, oh, oh. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You begin a dialog. You may’t even end it. You are speaking lots.

BIANCULLI: That was Speaking Heads. Seymour Stein spoke to Terry Gross in 2018. He died final Sunday at age 80. We’ll hear extra of their dialog after a break. Additionally, we’ll hear from Joni Mitchell, who final month obtained the Library of Congress Gershwin Prize for Common Track. And movie critic Justin Chang evaluations “Air,” directed by Ben Affleck. I am David Bianculli. And that is FRESH AIR.

(SOUNDBITE OF ALLISON MILLER’S BOOM TIC BOOM’S “WELCOME HOTEL”)

BIANCULLI: That is FRESH AIR. I am David Bianculli, professor of tv research at Rowan College, sitting in for Terry Gross. Let’s return to Terry’s 2018 interview with Sire Data co-founder Seymour Stein, who died final Sunday at age 80. Among the many many acts he found and signed embody the Ramones, Ice-T, Speaking Heads and a sure finally very well-known materials lady. He was within the hospital when he signed her.

STEIN: Nicely, let’s return somewhat earlier than that. Mark Kamins was somebody that I believed had a number of potential as a producer, a scout and every little thing. And the third or fourth artist he introduced me was Madonna. And he introduced the file to me whereas I used to be within the hospital. This – I used to be there a couple of week and a half when he got here to see me, and he performed me this one observe, “Everyone” by Madonna, and I used to be completely blown away. And so I mentioned, look. I might wish to see her. I’ll be right here for an additional nearly three weeks. Attempt to convey her down right here so I can meet her and we are able to, you realize, do a deal.

So he goes away and calls me up at 5 o’clock and says, Madonna and I are coming to see you at 8 o’clock. And right here I used to be, you realize, laying on this hospital uniform and a large number, you realize, and I in all probability hadn’t taken a bathe in a number of days and all that ‘trigger they needed to take all of the needles out of me. I freaked out. I had any individual come and shave me and minimize my hair and look the perfect I may in 2.5 hours earlier than she received there.

However when she got here, after I noticed her, I noticed that the best way she spoke – first, she’s superb. However she needed a shot greater than something. And I needed to present her that shot ‘trigger I completely believed in her. So we spoke a couple of deal, and we agreed on a deal for recordings. And he or she walked out of there very glad. And I went to mattress very glad that night time, and that was nice. And later, I realized that she had been making an attempt to get a deal for over two years. And other people like Chris Blackwell, who was any individual that I’ve the best…

BIANCULLI: He ran Island Data.

STEIN: Yeah, he owned Island Data and ran it – had turned her down, and different folks had turned her down. I could not imagine it as a result of to me, it was a no brainer. And it was a fantastic day in my life.

GROSS: So of the early tracks that you simply recorded together with her, do you’ve gotten a favourite?

STEIN: I feel that the music I favored greatest and was actually the music that grew to become the one which launched her most was “Borderline.” I beloved it. However I favored every little thing that she did.

GROSS: Nicely, why do not we hear “Borderline”? Seymour Stein, thanks a lot for speaking with us. And thanks for signing the bands that you simply signed.

STEIN: I respect it very a lot.

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “BORDERLINE”)

MADONNA: (Singing) One thing in the best way you like me will not let me be. I do not need to be your prisoner, so, child, will not you set me free? Cease enjoying with my coronary heart. End what you begin whenever you make my love come down. If you’d like me, let me know. Child, let it present. Honey, do not you idiot round. Simply attempt to perceive I’ve given all I can ‘trigger you bought the perfect of me. Borderline. Appears like I’ll lose my thoughts. You simply carry on pushing my love over the borderline.

BIANCULLI: That was Madonna. Seymour Stein spoke to Terry Gross in 2018. The co-founder of Sire Data died final Sunday at age 80. After a break, we hearken to an archive interview with Joni Mitchell, who was not too long ago honored by the Library of Congress for her songwriting. That is FRESH AIR.

(SOUNDBITE OF THE FRED HERSCH TRIO’S “GRAVITY’S PULL”)

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